Today may we remember the 9/11 terroist attacks

[MyParentsHouse]

amongst our worry and own problems...Hope you are all well...It affected the world not just the USA.

[Ozzy]

Hi Parents,
Last year on the first anniversary I made my then 9 year old go to a retirement home and hand each of the residence (about 10) a small bouquet of flowers, and explain why he was doing it. That today on a day that is remembered for an awful thing he is going to do something nice just because and for someone he didn't know. (Course I made sure I knew someone in the retirement home staff, and his dad went with him - before I get lambbaised for forcing my child to see strangers) He didn't want to do it in the beginning... I mean what 8 almost 9 year old boy would want to - but he said while he was doing it and afterwards he felt really good inside.
This year because of all thats been happening 9-11 sorta snuck up on us. So I had him make a card, and his step sister did to - just saying that the firemen were our hero's on today and on 8-22. Then I made a batch of shortbread cookies (in hopes it might bring on winter sooner) feel like I cheated out on the whole meaning I wanted it to be today, but I'm promising myself to find another day when all this calms down in our town and we have all our belongings home and aren't waiting for the knock on the door, that I will do something moreso in memory of today .

[MyParentsHouse]

strength just reading your posts...You have enough on your plate my dear...just remembering is something for you to do especially with what you have been dealing with. Your children have very caring parents..Hugs

[Shiva]

Ozzy, Parents,

I'm taking off my facicious, cynical hats for a moment. I don't understand peoples need to continue on the vein I see on TV today over 9-11, and here, as Ozzy has coinded, "8-22".

I understand at the time, people need to grieve - it's part of a healing process - but we stopped remembering the Titanic, Chicago fire, Halifax blast, WW-I, WW-III, Korea, Nam, I could go on and on.

It seems society only grieves and 'remembers' until the next big catastrophy. Since "8-22", thousands of people have been killed, or left homeless due to storms, earthquakes, and wars.

Do you think things like remembering 9-11, and 8-22 help people not to see the other events, make the daily routine easier to accept, or what? I don't understand what it does.

Maybe it doesn't matter - for me, what comes to mind the most is when I flipped open a local media rag, which I rarely do and there was a picture of a young girl, aged 15, in the obituary section and two letters written by friends. I't didn't say so in the paper, but I understand she died as the result of a car crash - some teens out for a good time - on the same road where another teen was killed not long ago.

Every time I see someone talking grief over lost homes, lost trees, lost jobs, lost tresels, I see the picture of that young lady and suddenly - none of the fire matters anymore. I empathize with those affected by the fire and understand the feelings many have over the whole thing but for all of us, life will go on. Picking a date to make remembering or grieving more prevelant and special doesn't do anything for me - what does it do for others?

{{ hats on }}

[Ozzy]

Shiva - I'd like to answer that but bear in mind I am only answering on my behalf.

I have in my past been an advocate for all sorts of plights, poverty, wife/child abuse, womens rights... on and on and on.... but I never truly felt like it was deep in my soul that these effected me... strange due to the fact I lived my childhood surrounded by abuse towards myself, my mother, lived in poverty and oppression etc etc....

I've been in therapy for the last 7 years trying to deal with severe symptoms of what I suffered through... and trust me it isn't foo foo therapy -- I struggle through each meeting, and through each night when I have nightmares - anyhow... there is a point to this trip down memory lane. Sept 11 was the point that I sorta woke up.... I saw New York in pain in a way I could completely relate to, it was me grieving through this loss for strangers but also the light being turned on in my own grieving for the first time for my own evil monsters of my life. Without going into a great long dialog, Sept 11 I woke from my coma to see that what I suffered through in my childhood wasn't my fault and isn't something I should accept as being the norm. So not only is Sept 11th a anniversary for the towers but in a strong way it is my anniversary to a road of recovery and awakening. Call it mind mumbo jumbo, but alot of people saw a difference in me from that point on.

And now 8-22 was another wake up call but in a different way, its not a matter of grieving, its something that I am still working through. I'm not sure if you saw the same thing I did. But I was in Oyama evacuating horses during the fire storm, and to see the fire storm eating what appeared to be all of Kelowna from such a distance away was the most terrifying experience that I can remember at this point. I was separated from my child right then, I figured thats it, we will never be able to go back to this town.... where is my son, does he know I'm okay.... where do you even begin to rebuild on something this large.

By me remembering these two days, doesn't take away from me knowing and feeling for all the suffering going on around me and for the things I know about but don't see (droughts, starving, wars, earthquakes etc) but if I was to devote all my attention to all that hurts, there would be nothing left of me for my family, my son, myself.

I look at these two events as someone giving me a thump on the head saying... hey lady - your missing the point of your life..... here's a reminder.... I look at my life as one that is full of riddles and a journey.... there is a reason for everything, and I am here for a reason. Do I honestly think its for working for my hubby collecting past due accounts, no, well I certainly hope not. I've been touched by atleast two catasphoic (my spelling is horrible I know) events.... and I can either blow them off and say oh well atleast I'm still living and have my stuff. Or I can say hmm.... these feel like they effect me to my core... why what is it I need to learn, what is it I need to take from these events.
Hopefully this answers your question,but I think I might be seen as just talking mumbo jumbo.

[amberlori]

I shudder to say it Shiva, but I agree with you on this.

9-11 was a devestating event. I think I cried for 3 days, and I didn't even know anyone in the towers. I don't think I even knew anyone who knew anyone. But now, it's in the past, like Hiroshima, like the Holocaust, I remember, but I don't dwell. If we had a day to remember every horrific event, we'd be having a moment of silence every day...some days more than one moment of silence.

Anyway, our history is full of heroes, and and it's also full of tragedy not related to war, or disaster. Like your picture of the young girl, like my childhood friend killed by a drunk driver, like Edna from one of the other threads....we all have images to remember. Why do take only one day a year to do it? We need to remember, ourselves, whenever the need strikes us. Whenever we hear something that reminds us of precious life. Whenever it is right, for us.
Picking a date and saying "Today, you remember" is insulting.

[Ozzy]

Maybe it shouldn't be a day of remembering but more a day thats a reminder.... the difference being if something has effected you so great.... what have you done about it.
Obviously 9-11 upset a huge amount of people, regardless if they were directly effected by it or not... and as Shiva says his reading the paper and seeing the girls picture effected him.
So what are you doing about it. If when Shiva sees the headlines of the fire but has an image of the girl from the obits, then maybe its something inside him saying.... hmmmm.... what have you done lately to counter the bad things...
I am not a religious person but feel there is a greater meaning to everything, and we all need to look beyond ourselves and our own little bubbles.... but thats not an easy thing to do... so if you were outraged on 9-11 after it happened... did you do anything about it. Did you send a letter to a family that was in pain, did you protest against terrorism in some way.... if you didn't then maybe today is a reminder that its not too late to do something outside of your bubble....
I'm going to get off this subject now, I'm starting to sound WAY to preachy.....

[Shiva]

Ozzy said:

Shiva - Hopefully this answers your question,but I think I might be seen as just talking mumbo jumbo.

Wow! Great answer - I even understand the "mumbo jumbo. Thanks - I was curious because, as you can probably tell - I don't feel the same most people seem to feel over this.

Mumbo-jumboly speaking, maybe it's my unique I gotta be me way of doing things.

Hope this 'catastrophic' event has dealt you a Royal Flush this time.

[MyParentsHouse]

things in our life that are oh so trivial..there is a deeper side to our lives...one that lives deep inside of us. These events also touched my life...Our "Friend" was at that call as it was out in his area...he told us about it and it wasn't pretty...a childs life cut before it's time..I too saw the obituary and cried...(the thing women do well) and each day I see something happen it makes me realize that I am only a small part of this picture but I can do things that make a difference...on 9/11 I donated blood cause I could, the night of the firestorm I went to do what I could down at the center...for the moms that I support in our community when they lose a child...those endless nights up talking with them about their grief....most people need a day to REMIND them about what is going on...with 4 kids I can get BURRIED in my own sorrow and these days serve as a reminder that I too need to pull my head out of the sand(your comments I believe) and do something about it and not just mope around....especially those days that are bad here at home. Ozzies story sounds hauntingly familiar but in a less serious way for myself...I had a friend working in the towers...I had friends and family affected by the fires(you know the story) so this is my reminder....Sorry if this sounds pathetic but this is just the way it is for us...

[Shiva]

amberlori said:

I shudder to say it Shiva, but I agree with you on this... 9-11 was a devestating event.

et cetera...

Whoa! What is becoming of us? ;D

Maybe we do the things you say because of a need, or do it because of a perceived need or aneed dropped on us by TV. I'm sure, for many, it's better to say let's hang our heads in rememberance than to be critiqued for not doing anything.

Ouch - I'm gonna get it for that one. But, if I were in that building, or my house was lost, I wouldn't want people to pray for me, or remember me on a particular day in a special way or grieve for my lost timber.
I'd want them to forget about me and more importantly remember what caused the disaster and do something to make sure it doesn't happen to them too.

[Shiva]

MyParentsHouse said:

...a childs life cut before it's time..I too saw the obituary and cried...(the thing women do well) .....
I can get BURRIED in my own sorrow and these days serve as a reminder that I too need to pull my head out of the sand(your comments I believe) and do something about it and not just mope around....
....Sorry if this sounds pathetic but this is just the way it is for us...

I hear ya - loud and clear, and it's not pathetic - not to me anyway - anything from the soul can't be pathetic.
and it wasn't me that said .."head out of the sand..." that's not where I think some peole have their heads If I did, the location of the head was wrong. I take it back - the comment that is

It's good that you can work through disaters - and thank you for your honest response.

No matter what, every day in the valley is a good day - so enjoy it - why? Because I said so - that's why

[Ozzy]

Shiva,

To me this day I want to do something completely out of my bubble, and make sure my child sees out of his bubble too.... which is why I'm upset at myself for not going more outa my way then just making cookies. I want something of today to be a complete twist to what I would normally do. But thats just me, some people all they can muster in their busy lives is to bow their heads in silence or just to think where was I when the planes hit, and the feelings that came after. Its not enough for myself to do just that - but all in all, with the way that people have developed over time, as long as they do anything to pull their heads out of the sand/their bubble to relize they they are but a small cog in this big wheel today then I see it as a small step forward. Its the people that move on with their day and say hey- it didn't really effect me personally and well I have too many cell calls to make - those people I feel sorry for.... they are missing so much more in life....
And it doesn't have to be today... today like I said should just be a reminder...
Your discussion on all this reminds me of something I've felt since the fires hit, it is my worry that our community again will develop into its usual, people not reaching out for each other..... caring for how another is doing.... etc etc... I laughed when I thought last week if I walked up to a stranger and said, Hi my name is Amy and I just wanted to ask how you were doing this week.... well I would get a response, and no blink of the eye - no one would think, hey this lady is nuts..... and yet if I do that in 3 weeks from now, I wonder what sort of response I would get.
I guess part of me grew up on too many Little House on the Prairie books, I so want to be in the small community where everyone says hi, and looks out for each other. Where a girls death would effect the community and not just a small handful of people. I'm not looking for the rose colored glasses land, I know poop happens, but its how we deal with the poop that matters most.
Ahhh... I thought I said I wasn't going to post on this discussion anymore.... apparently I'm a bit behind on my meds or coffee this morning.... forgive the rant.

[Guest]

I have family and friends in Kelowna and watched with trepidation all that was going on. My husband told me at one time that I was obsessed with it. I disagreed with him, but now I am not so sure he wasn't right in a way.

When the towers were hit two years ago, I too mourned with the world and watched all the television programs. I don't relive it every year, I don't follow all the TV programs on it with the anniversary edition shows. I am sad that it happened, as I am sad at the assassination of JFK, sad at the death of my mother, etc. I choose to remember them, not mourn them each year.

The Okanagan Mountain Fire came along, and as I mentioned, I have family and friends that were affected. I was born and raised in Kelowna and moved away. I visit quite often and I was just there the long weekend to see how everyone was.

I have Castanet on my desktop and refresh a couple of time a day. I have downloaded every picture that was posted. I have lurked at the discussion forum and I did all this to feel a connection with my home town and the people in it.

Shiva has some valid points and I have been doing some soul searching about this topic for the past couple of days. To be brutally honest with myself, I think there is a very tiny part of me that felt left out. I was not being evacuated. I was not staring at the fire everyday and worrying. I think there was a tiny part of me that was jealous.

I think the reliving of past events, such as 9-11, bring us back to the event and give us a connection again. I think that of all of mankinds traits and foibles, the "need to belong, to feel connected" is the strongest.

[Shiva]

Ozzy said:

If when Shiva sees the headlines of the fire but has an image of the girl from the obits, then maybe its something inside him saying....

Actually, that's not what I mean't. I didn't even see headlines of the fire. I didn't look at the front page. I was having a coffee, the paper was there, I flipped the page open, without really looking at what page, and there were the obits - It caught my - I read it, closed the rag and got back to work. The picture is still in my mind, but the fire doesn't remind me of her. She reminds me of her - of other kids - of other things, besides just the fire.

Gotta go - back in a few days. Here's the key - look after things till I get back ;D

[CookRoad]

Hmmm... September 11, 1973

Terrorist Military Dictator August Pinochet makes bloody coup, replacing and murdering democratically elected President Allende, along with hundreds and hundreds of innocent Chileans. Evil torture and death squads pillage, rape, and "disappear" civilians for years afterward, a-la Saddam Hussein.

Q: This terrorism was promulgated and backed by which world superpower?