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Post by Thermoguy on Sept 22, 2003 20:20:57 GMT -5
I missed the poll on whether governments did the best job and some say quit complaining, it is over. That is right and all we have to do now is absorb the hundreds of millions of dollars damage to Kelowna and absorb the 7 million a day to fight fires provincially. The environmental and health ramifications aren't a big deal, what can mud slides, sedement in the watersheds and fish habitat, environmental pollution that is 12 times worse than second hand smoke do to us. The least we can expect is to have leaders use every resource available to deal with these complex issues. We appreciate there were jurisdictional issues before the fire got to Kelowna. The thermal imaging we do is far beyond the capabilities of forestry so when the fire started, we contacted our MLA and left a message explaining that we have unprecedented services to offer Forestry and had the ability to track the direction of the fire through smoke.(no response) We contacted the Ministry of Forests on several occassions but the bureaucratic lack of continuity kept them from validating our claims of assistance beyond their present abilities. When Silk first reported smoke was a problem fighting the fire, we contacted Silk, offered our services and they contacted forestry who said they were handling it. That was on the 18th of September. I sent files to Kelowna Fire Department showing the fire through the smoke and was told they had my number but forestry was handling it. Fire behavior specialists were brought in and did what they could but the smoke inhibited the process. Castanet posted our fire files on the 21st from Kettle Valley. I went to the main fire hall, tried to share the images with KFD and was told forestry was handling it. The 22nd was hell day and I watched the fire build through the smoke, read dispatches from the fire department and forestry saying they were blinded by the smoke. That day and night we lost 200 plus homes and the fire raged on and was only contained with the assistance of mother nature. Seeing the fire through the smoke is the simplest part of thermography but we fought the fire blind. We offered a demo for no charge to show what we had to offer, all we needed was a helicopter ride, (no response) It is my professional opinion that the leadership from the province was lacking as it was from the City of Kelowna. How the hell do you qualify a companies capabilities with zero dialogue? As a taxpayer, I am angry that I now have to suck it up, pay for it, lose a billion and more with environmental/health concerns. The very time the forestry and Kelowna are speaking of their smoke problems on the 22nd, Gordon Campbell is on Gyro Beach doing some media with his party and several including the premier looked through our infrared equipment, saw the fire through the smoke and did zero follow up. That night we evacuated 30 thousand people. There will be a reduction in services to pay for this fire, it affects education, environment, health and the domino effect goes on. I expect leadership, not political incompetence to take precedence over public health and safety. There needs to be an inquiry for one reason. Make the process better so this doesn't happen again.
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Grateful to have a home
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Post by Grateful to have a home on Sept 23, 2003 14:31:52 GMT -5
The pictures you provided were very interesting indeed, infact shocking to see how close the flames were in the smoke. I wish we had them Thursday night BEFORE we all sat in a traffic jam on Chute Lake road for two hours watching the fire come closer and closer. It is evident the Ministry crews new something the fire department did not know when they evacuated their men in the Chute Lake road area at about 3 PM on August 21. Why were we not evacuated too. I think arrogance had a little to do with that. (Mine too) Thank whomever you pray to for the wind holding off that night. If you were sitting there, you would know what mean. Funny you should suggest that your photos would help the fire fighting efforts. Our chief in red was too busy blacking out the media coverage. Did anyone have a scanner ?Why did he wear red coveralls anyway? That is for another day. Two thumbs up to the front line folks, pants down to management.
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Grateful to have a home
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Post by Grateful to have a home on Sept 24, 2003 23:22:00 GMT -5
Oppps, I would like to add this to my thoughts. Got caught up with fighting the fire. I forgot the volunteers !! You were the STARS ! And you did it because your hearts are huge.
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Post by Who Knows on Sept 24, 2003 23:38:02 GMT -5
Thermoguy,
With what you are saying maybe if you would get ahold of the one gentlemen speaking out and try to piece these things together you would have a better chance. Instead of writing on this and publicaly do something you may have a better chance at getting any results. The politics that have happened in the last couple of days in your area I find out right hideous. As far as I can comprehend the man that was vocal of the operations that happened told the truth in his professional opinion. (I am sure he knows a hell of alot more that went on or didn't go on). Besides we do live in a free country that has the freedom of speech and press. If you have anything to say, say it out loud not here nobody is going to take this and do anything with it. There needs to be more people speaking out about what happened. There have been many people making reference that someone they knew was fighting the fire. Ask them to make a statement to the press and back up the guy that is out there now. Just because it has stopped don't let this happen again in your area or anybody else's community.
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Post by Also wondering on Sept 25, 2003 10:59:09 GMT -5
Good luck. We are still a small town. Our media is still controlled by the local government. Freedom of speach is lost in this town, sadly even on this chat board. Although it is better then nothing? I find it amazing how this story regarding the fire department has been turned around 360 degrees and makes anyone questioning the way this fire was handled look like the bad guy. All that was asked was to look into what happened, but it was turned around to look like a personal assualt on the man in red. Other media in Canada stands up for freedom of speach. Kelowna media are well behaved and sit when told to sit. In fact I expect this comment to be pulled from the board soon.
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Post by Also wondering on Sept 25, 2003 11:01:44 GMT -5
Good luck. We are still a small town. Our media is still controlled by the local government. Freedom of speech is lost in this town, sadly even on this chat board. Although it is better then nothing? I find it amazing how this story regarding the fire department has been turned around 360 degrees and makes anyone questioning the way this fire was handled look like the bad guy. All that was asked was to look into what happened, but it was turned around to look like a personal assualt on the man in red. Other media in Canada stands up for freedom of speech. Kelowna media are well behaved and sit when told to sit. In fact I expect this comment to be pulled from the board soon.
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Post by Who Knows on Sept 25, 2003 11:19:01 GMT -5
Thank-you Also Wondering,
It seems to me that Rick Pasutto has had to shut his mouth about in his opinion what was wrong and the actions that happened at that time. I am wondering why some of these people don't go to the broader spectrum of media. It seems to me the media brought this on and know they are shunning a man that may have a vital point. If you do not want this to happen again then let all be said. The MOF had no right in speaking of Pasutto's behalf at the meetin yesterday. They are assulting him. No wonder people do not want to help in the time of need anymore and put what they believe in out on the line. The one comment of the MOF is that the city put the fire guards around his house is false. He did that himself with family and friends. The MOF were out there protecting this area because they had approx three hundred people working out of his yard with equipment and vehicles. Can you imagine if they said they were protecting this area in the best interest of our capability to fight the fire and save the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. I'd like to know where the people are that were voicing there complaints on the forum and are know not standing up in the media and speaking out. I am. But they will and have not published any of my editorials. Just my opinion of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
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Ozzy
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http://www./
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Post by Ozzy on Sept 25, 2003 13:10:17 GMT -5
Who knows you may be onto something here.... I don't know Rick but if he feels as betrayed and angry as I would over the last 48 hours of some political back peddling... I would start my own website and tell the story from my point of view... Remember that guy that we all see on the hwy at some points with BCCourtssuck or something like that with his banner and website, maybe someone who is computer swavvy could help Rick out there, so he can say his peace and put this all to bed. Frankly I would love to hear his story, not for the scandelousness of it, but he faced the fire head on with his family and friends and it is his experiences with that that I would love to hear.
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Post by Who Knows on Sept 25, 2003 13:26:55 GMT -5
Rick at this time is already fed up over this. He stated his opinion and was left out of the rest. How would anyone feel about this. Deliver your cookies and I am sure you may have the chance. There has to be another media out of the town of Kelowna to cover this because in the town the media of Kelowna will continue to cover this up and will not be behind a man with integrity, knowledge and willingness to stand up for what he believes in.
Thanks for the support.
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Seriously sick of serious
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Post by Seriously sick of serious on Sept 25, 2003 13:34:22 GMT -5
The Kelowna media is notorious for this kind of behaviour. 'Happy' news only, please, and whatever you do, don't offend anybody, especially the paying advertisers.
Freedom of speech? Just a suggestion.
Maybe he should take his story to the Vancouver Sun.
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OurCourtsSuckDotComGuy
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Post by OurCourtsSuckDotComGuy on Sept 28, 2003 11:55:05 GMT -5
My primary concern as to how the fire was handled has to do with the initial response - none for at least eight hours. Another concern that I have was elloquently stated by David Lindsay when he asked Prime Minister Cretien if the feds were going to envoke the power of the Federal Reserve Bank of Canada to issue interest-free loans to cover the emergency costs. Cretien said that they didn't do things that way! Of course not - they are looking after their cosy relationship with private bankers and using this as another opportunity to drive our national debt even higher! The Bank of Canada does have the power to issue interest-free loans but our politicians, in their infinite wisdom, will not mine this vast resource.
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Post by Castanet Moderator on Sept 29, 2003 16:15:05 GMT -5
Ahem... how has freedom of speech been curtailed in this board Thermoguy?
No posts on this have been edited or deleted.
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Post by frankhilliard on Sept 30, 2003 12:25:58 GMT -5
Thermoguy is right on the button. The Ministry of Forests Protection Branch mishandled this thing from the get-go and then tried to bamboozle everyone into thinking it was unmanagable. I was shocked to find that MFPB doesn't fight fires at all at night. They also refused to use a free Oshkosh / Rosenbauer Rough Terrain Fire Truck when one was offered by SafetyBoss of Red Deer. I've written a complete report on the fire I invite you to read at this URL: frankhilliard.com/commentary If you see any errors, please let me know directly at frankhilliard@shaw.ca In the meantime, I'm planning to attend the inqury when it's held, presumably here in Kelowna.
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Post by Castanet Moderator on Oct 1, 2003 12:50:47 GMT -5
I didn't delete your post Thermalguy. Most have been the board bug at work again.
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Marie
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Post by Marie on Nov 29, 2003 0:50:07 GMT -5
Since August 22,I have been to numb to feel any anger for the lost of my house in the forest,the mountain where I lived with my husband and children for almost 10 years. So many told me, "what do you expect living so close to the woods.". When I read some of the reports,listening to comments from people at the Firestorm review. I am mad as HELL, so so much could have being prevent, the condition of the Mountain should have been enough for All to jump right at it,just like they did when a small fire started on the West side of the lake and quickly 2 planes went to take care of it,at the time I was at the beach at Stracona, North end of the city. My house was not insured.It was one of the Cabin on the Mountain. After 25 years living in this city, I realize now Kelowna has brought me to much hardship for the last 6 years and I mostly blamed bureaucrats for not acting more humanly for not listening and only thinking of $.
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