donations to fire victims???

[frustrated]

I don't get it. People that had their homes fully insured are getting all kinds of free $$$$$$ in donations. I hear how excited they all are about their new homes and kitchens etc. "Gonna be better than ever".
I am a single working mother, struggling to pay my MSP premiums and my property taxes. I contribute to my community, however there is no help from my community here. I basicly have to be living in a cardboard box on the street before I qualify for any assistance.
In other provinces, health care is paid by the province. On a income of 30,000 a year a single mom can afford a house, save for her retirement and her childrens education because she gets assistance from the city in subsidised day care. With help like that, it is worth her while to get out and work and contribute back into the community. It is very frusterating to see all this donated money going to people who were already well off and will have even better things after the fire. Sure they did suffer a inconvience. How inconvenient is it to have to buy your child second hand clothes for school so that you can pay your property taxes, never mind dental visits, RRSP's or RESP's. The rich definately get richer!!

PS
We keep refering to these people as fire victims...
....should they not be refered to fire surviviors?

[MyParentsHouse]

people up there were RICH...if you read back on the discussion forum on the fire...there are a few that are NOT RICH...so the thing of they live in Mission they can afford this is not a blanket statement that should be made...Yes there are many up there that are getting things that maybe they can afford to do on their own...but they are fire survivors for sure now but most of them are still having a hell of a time with insurance and payouts ect....my parents can't even get a builder to quote on a new place to live and they live modestly and have their own business...one man I might add and it is a 6-7 day a week job he has been doing now for over 40 years...it is a dirty job and he works hard...what for...for angry people to say that he is rich and can afford to lose his home...We too are middle class one person in the family working as it is not worth if for me to work for daycare for 4 children. We are low middle class and pay our premiums(barely) we use second hand stuff all the time as do our parents....If you talk to most of the people they did not use alot of what has been handed out and I know of one doctor who bought groceries with his money that was given to him and donated it to the food bank.....so lumping all people in as rich and taking advantage of the system is wrong. Many people struggle day to day but if you spend a day with some of these people such as I have to see the horror they went thru, the worry, the sleepless nights and now NO HOME to return to I think that it is a small price to pay....I gave what I could on our modest income as if it were me I would want the communities support in a tough time of rebuilding...just because we don't hear about the fire anymore doenst mean that it is over....for many of these people it is just beginning, the horrors of trying to get a builder...or just return phone calls from some of the insurance companies....other than a living allowance to get incidentals they need...mom and dad have not gotten a penny yet from insurance and they were one of the first 15 to burn out...and there are people who can rebuild right now and it is happening...now they need special inspections for their property, arborists to asses each tree...on 5 1/2 acres of trees this is a chore...and no this is not covered by insurance....if they do it comes off the top of what their house would cost to rebuild....so most of these people will end up paying out of pocket again for rebuilding... The free donations have been open to the general public for eons now as only a handful of fire victims actually used it...single parents, parents on assistance, dual working families needing help....you just actually have to go down there and ask for help...
I feel that an inconvenience is a very low blow...as for our parents it was their lifestyle...not an inconvenience...they lost EVERYTHING...yes...it will be replaced...except for the 18th century dresser her parents brought over from England that was in the spare bedroom we coudn't fit in the car...trust me...the money they have received is only the insurance advance and that is it...as for the $1000 they will get from Sally Ann...well that really doesn't buy much now a days does it??? Insurance premiums...well premuim assistance..apply for it....as for other provinces paying..yes..Saskatchewan does...but it is very limited as to what you dont' pay for and if you are in the hospital for more than 8 days it is out of your pocket...trust me we just got a bill for when my grandma was there for 10 days...we owe them over 10 000 dollars...only for her to pass away....and they sent her home with a broken neck.... If this is sounding angry it is not...just that this is getting old that these people just because they live in Mission they can afford it...I know of 3 single moms living up there...and they are far from rich...they get donated clothing from us when we have our clothing sales...So if losing your home is not tragic enough..have people say over and over again that is is over and that they don't deserve a helping hand up instead if bashing them for needing help when they are down. Just my opinion...

[okgirl]

Dear MyParentsHouse,

While I sympathize with your parents -- I really do! I know that you KNOW that they are the minority of the people that lost their homes in that area.
I am not trying to minimize their loss -- but come on considering what could have happened up there -- losing your home is really not that big a deal. It is getting replaced in spades I am sure. Also, I am sure that your parents are not on the verge of being homeless or that they have been fed since this all began.

I work at a hotel here in Kelowna and I can tell you that the VAST MAJORITY of the people that are staying here that lost their homes are VERY well off. They are now in the front office regaling us with tales of their new italian marble and how they are going to be rebuilding the way they want it to be! You have to admit they are pretty hard to feel sorry for.

All the patrons that we had come here were given vouchers for their stays as well as I know that they received vouchers from their insurance companies to pay for food etc. I think that your parents need to deal with a different insurance company as I know that the people that are staying with us have been handled with kid gloves.

Again I know how it must have been tough losing MATERIAL things -- don't you think that the lesson in all of this is that MATERIAL things are not what makes your life complete. Thank God nobody lost their lives or this would be a different forum altogether. I am sure there are many people who live in some war torn countries that would change spots with us in a moments notice!

So come on people -- wake up and look at the big picture! It really was just a major inconvenience -- STUFF IS STUFF -- people are what make life important! So count your blessings and stop belly aching -- life is too short!

As my mother always says "THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE IN THE CEMETARY THAT WOULD TRADE PLACES WITH YOU!!!"

Just my opinion

[amberlori]

What insurance company do these people have that got vouchers from their insurance company, and from the government? I should switch to that insurance company.
Our insurance company didn't want to pay for our out of house expenses because we could have gotten it from the government.

I can see both sides of this coin. There are lots of low income families that are feeling brushed aside in the rush to "help the rich", but there are many (and more than you think) people that aren't rich in our area that could use the help too.

And to say losing your home is not a big deal...that just sounds hearless. Sure it was things. Sure it was materials. But it's not the loss of the house per se, it's the loss of the security, the feeling of safety...That's what these people have suffered.

[MyParentsHouse]

many people up there are being inconvenienced...but they still lost their homes!!! For many of the people burnt out in their(mom and dads)homes it was a way of life...not just a home and posessions. Yes the furniture can be replaced...yes the fridge the stove ect...but for those who actually make stuff for their home...built most of it by themselves...the blood sweat and tears put into it... for many people a home is just that...a place to eat, sleep and relax..... For many of the people up where mom and dad are at it is their castles...all 1200 square feet of it. Some of the people up where mom and dad live are getting ALL that they ask for(and their homes weren't burnt out)...funny how money speaks volumes....for the average joe blo living up their living either beyond their means(for some) some living just comfortably(mom and dad) and some who have money comming out of their ying yangs. There are many walks of life up there....not just the rich ones. For those who are still in Hotels obviously they have money(comes off the top of the house costs for insurance as most people already have been given their living out allowance)...marble...nice....in my dreams and many others. I have heard of many who have money who are getting a bunch of stuff done and fixed now too but there are many others that aren't. I know of many families living in Crawford that it took all that they had to get a house up there....hard work and sweat equity....they are going to get their homes up and so on but WHEN? Tell your kids their home is gone and see how devistating it is....for Crawford residents didnt have a lot of time so one that I know of lost EVERYTHING...baby pics, wedding photos, STUFF that cant' be replaced....Yes..peoples lives can't be replaced and there is no disputing that obvious fact but probably
about 1/3 of the people it is not just a matter of replacing a home...their palace, it is trying to recoup from a very traumatic experience....when you drive from your home knowing the love They put into their home....knowing with a few more wind gusts it could be over...the stress of sitting WAITING to know if your place is gone or still standing...then finally seeing your home plastered all over the news with news men rummaging thru the contents of what is left when you haven't even been able to see the house or what is left of it....thinking all the while...what else could we have done....Live your life with retirement knowing you have to be out of your home for 2 years because they can't get to you until the other homes are built and then it is still iffy on the timeline. No it is not just an inconvenience for many...it is their life on hold until they can move back home...

Thank you for the other input though...doesn't give solace to those who are in the middle of insurance maddness or to those who's whole life went up in smoke. So yes...i will give you the fact that many up there are rich...but then again...I am rich in many other ways than money....Guess this is one subject we will not see eye to eye on...a little compassion for those who did lose their homes is all I am asking...whether they have money or not...they still worked hard to get it.

[okanog]

Hmmm, well I think there is always a few that take advantage. For the few that are greedy, is it fair to pass judgement on all and deny the majority help? I think not.

[okgirl]

Okay -- just a sec -- I am not judging anyone! I am merely saying that people need to put all of this into perspective.

I realize that it is traumatic - but let's look at all the opportunities that have been given to these people, and I don't mean material opportunities!

They have been given the opportunity to look at other people's suffering in the world (which I may add is much worse than the suffering felt in Crawford Estates etc) and realize that what is going on on different parts of this Earth is absolutely TRAUMATIZING! They should be taking this "traumatic" experience as a barometer on what others go through on a daily basis! Don't you agree that we are TRULY blessed that our biggest complaint in this country is that our house isn't going to be rebuilt in a few years. Other people in this world are afraid to let their toddlers out as they may step on a landmine!

I have yet to hear from someone who has taken from this experience any life lessons. Instead of looking at this as an opportunity to open their hearts and minds to the TRUE suffering felt around the world -- people are once again blinded by the MATERIAL things in the world!

There are little children living in cardboard boxes on the streets of Vancouver people!!! I am sure that there are many children living with their parents in cars and others that are living with abusive parents that the government doesn't have the funding to help out! I bet if every one of the people in the Mission could convince their insurance company to give say $10000 to charity and forego an extra 500 square feet of living space (that they probably don't need anyway) could you imagine the contributions that would make a difference!

Also lets look for a minute at the poor people of Barriere who not only have lost their homes but also their mill -- the busiest place in town in Barriere is the food bank!

I am just a little miffed that the life lesson has been lost on Kelowna! Actually I find it heartbreaking! If the masses in the Mission can get their heads out of their "castles" then perhaps they could start to make a difference for the rest of the world!

So I guess what you say is correct -- we will agree to disagree! I have total compassion for what has happened to the people that lost their homes I just wish that they had seen the real message in all of this!

And before you write saying that I am painting everyone with the same brush -- I am not -- I am just waiting to hear of the few that have gotten the message!

[okgirl]

Okay just read my post and I want to assure everyone that I am now getting down of my soapbox! LOL!!

All I have to say is God Bless you all and may you all live LONG happy lives!!!!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[MyParentsHouse]

busy right now to have been able to Learn the lessons of life....They are busy trying to get their lives back on track before they can start even thinking about anything outside of their circle. This is a time consuming issue trying to rebuild, trying to put posessions on a piece of paper and going thru the PROCESS. When you are waiting for phone calls and people to show up when it is SOOO busy. I think you are asking for this COMPASSION from those who have been thru the ringer just a little soon. There are many people who straight from the insurance agency who haven't even been able to get their posessions on paper yet. So I think you will see compassion but just give it time....there are a few building but many yet still waiting to see if they can rebuild. The trend seems to be that Oh insurance will cover it...yes...insurance will pay for alot of stuff at the price of losing money to rebuild their house. So don't lose hope yet...I think a few good things WILL come from this...but.....give it some time...wounds are still fresh for some going thru the Insurance woes and so on.....

[WestPenderFire]

Here in Vancouver, myself and a number of the former tenants of our heritage building that was located at 337 West Pender Street, the one that was destroyed for the most part by fire on July 03, 2003, are wondering what kind of deal you guys have up there?
There seems to be all this help in various forms of donations and insurance companies appear to be helping as soon as possible and you are even allowed to access the information you may need for your claim through the different levels of government.
Our building had approx. forty tax paying business tenants (only 2 - 3 were artists), plus our employees, and we all lost everything, the stuff that was recoverable was stolen by the excavating company that worked on the site afterwards, and we have video and police reports about that.
Fortunately the company I work for has insurance, but so far none of the tenants from the building, whether you had insurance or not has yet to receive any kind of help. From my point of view, we are not asking for donations, as we do seem to be getting by at this stage anyway, just information.
Even the insurance adjusters are frustrated and find it 'unusual' that they cannot get any information pertaining to this fire from City Hall, and none of us tenants (with or without insurance) can get any information either that may help move things forward.
Its nice in a way to see people in Kelowna and surrounding areas re-building again, but as time goes on here, hopes of having an operational and in our case, successful business again are running low.
So when we watch the news to see houses and businesses being built in the BC interior regions, and then know that our fire was small in comparison to yours. It just keeps those conspiracy theories up in the air as to what our delay could really be about.
Its also bad enough that this 'Popcorn Lady' as she wants to be called is not being charged with a criminal offense, eventhough it is her second building fire since March 2003, caused by an attempt to manufacture drugs with intent to sell.
She was even approaching the former tenants (mostly the female tenants) she recognized during the excavation and teased them about losing everything. Popcorn Lady got a place to stay the day she burned our building down, new clothes, and even money. So what does that tell you?
One or two of us were told that she does have addiction problems...no kidding. And she obviously also has a blatant disregard for anyone or anything but herself. That addiction excuse is not going to work for me, and the number of employees I once had.
She should be charged with an Act of Omission at least.
And as tax paying citizens in the 'world class' (ha ha) city of Vancouver, we should be allowed access to whatever is needed to
process our claims, and we will continue to do our best to help out those that had no insurance.

[MyParentsHouse]

the news are the good news stories... ALOT if not 3/4 of the fire people are still struggling with insurance and will be for quite a while. I know there are many out there who are rebuilding but to be honest with you I am not totally sure this is with insurance monies. Mom and dad have only JUST finished with the contents insurance and they were one of the first 15 here to be burnt out. As far as the house they are told at LEAST a year to rebuild. The fire here was a basic fire...no arson, nothing...just a lightenting strike that caused it. The day after the fire they called their insurance and at that time it was being handled by a separate adjustor...(didn't think it would get that far) but after the firestorm friday they got the disaster team down from Ontario to help expidite(sp) the procedures but to be honest with you.....It didn't help.(they have been thru 11 adjustors between the 5 they dealt with for the disaster team as well as their case has now changed hands 6 times now) They just signed off on their contents and the adjustors said they still have 1/2 the people who haven't even started theirs yet. The house is another story yet. The contractors are too busy to contact them and have told them that as they are already booked up past the end of next summer and have no time to "Quote" on their house. As far as the expiditin(sp) of the insurance they did not get the FAST track but simply had a common center that answers their questions and so they don't have to go to city hall to "Find out" what they have to do next. They still have to go to city hall to deal with the permits for removing trees, geotechnical surveys, contact numbers ect and that takes the time. I am sorry to hear of your losses and insurance does take time especially if there was a case such as a possible problem such as yourself as well as arson can tie it up for YEARS....one of the buildings here in Kelowna we know of was tied up for just over 10 years.(with no money changing hands ect for that time either) Maybe this is what is holding yours up as a full investigation has to be done... I have heard here that some people just were handed a checque for their full insured amounts of contents and were told to spend it on what they needed to get....this is only hearsay though....not a fact...(proven) It really bothers my parents that there are many people that are able to build right away and they are still struggling to get a VALUE put on their life as well. There was nothing to pilfer from their house as it was all gone...EVERYTHING...so as a couple just about ready to retire they are starting over so to speak and the value that is put on their LIVES has really shocked them... I hope you can get some help in your life and hope that it is in a timely manner.....I have talked to a neighbor who said theirs was a clear cut case as well for their daughter and it was an insurance nightmare for delays and loss of paperwork ect. I think it really depneds on who your insurance agent is as to how quickly it is taken care of too.....Good luck

[Laurel]

Haven't been on for a long time, but just had to put another thought into your ears. We are a small family business that has also suffered from the OMF. We own and operate a fruit stand that is dependant on tourism. When the fire started,it sent the tourists home; our business declined 85%. Not only did this affect us as a business, we had to lay off staff (more victims), curtail our purchases from local farmers (more victims) and cut back on our hours. So the people that lost their houses are not the only victims here. We depend on the Fruit Stand income to help us through the winter, and it looks like a long cold hungry one to me. Because we were not in the path of the fire does not mean we didn't suffer. Our major income comes in August thru to the middle of Sept, and tourists were long gone.
So where is our help? Who is going to cover some of our losses? Who will help us start up again next year. looks like that is something we'll have to take care of ourselves; and in that case we may not be able to open up again after 8 yrs in business at the same site. I know that we are not the only small business or tourist related business to suffer, but it needs to be looked at. Once again the Government has overlooked the little guys.

[MyParentsHouse]

did lose out on income with the fires. That is unfortunately a part of life. As for the monies that is promised...well mom and dad still haven't seen a penny of it. Dad himself is a one man business and with all that went on he lost out too....but as he says...Onward and Upward. As far as anyone who lost out on business I do feel for them but that is part of being in business for themselves. I know of one lady who lost everything in the fire and other associates all pitched in and bought her new everything.(To which she hasn't been able to use due to having to try and find a new place to live and rebuild her life into something different until their house is rebuilt.) Where do they draw the line?? Do we help EVERYONE? Do we reforest?? As far as help from the government I will believe it when I see it....they were even told they will have to do an appeal process on their LOTS now as they will be evaluated at what they were worth....is that the government helping? Other than the initial help with the Ministry for initial help mom and dad have seen NOBODY helping in relation to rebuilding, helping make sure there is anything done. The government is reseeding Bertram Park and have asked the residents where the erosion problems are earmarked as the worst if they would like to have them continue onto their properties. Other than that it is the only time there has been any talk to them about government help. They still can't even get a builder to contact them back so they can even get QUOTES to rebuild their homes and they need 3 of them to be able to submit into the insurance company. There is talk about not being able to move back into their home now for 3 years due to most builders are now booking into next fall for new homes. I don't see the government helping there. So in all the monies that you think is going to the fire victims...there is none that most of them have even seen. Even the monies that was told in the paper that Sally Ann(Salvation Army) was donating has not been received yet.

Now I do feel badly for all of those who lost out on business but there are bad years and good years and this is one of the bad ones we take with the good ones. Even dad's business dropped dramatically due to the fires as his is reliant on boats and tourism. He said I will just have to work harder next year.....for him it is an attitude...if he doesn't work they have no income...and of course now are going to have to go into debt after finally paying off their home in November just in time to retire only to have to get help once again and more payments as we all know insurance doesn't cover everything that people seem to think it does.... I could go on but just know that there were alot of people out there that suffered losses, both homes, income, security and so much more. I guess what I am trying to say is that instead of saying why aren't we getting help do something about it....we take fruit out of province to sell....had to this year especially...there are lots of avenues...no it may not support employees but there are jobs out there they can get(yes it sucks but it is a fact of life) I am sorry to hear of what has happened to the business but as a consumer I would GLADLY support you in your effort to stay afloat...I would even go out of my way to come to your establishment if it meant the difference of supporting our community...and we all know one customer can bring in other customers which normally may or may not support seasonal fruit stands ect due to them being busier during the seasons... Congratulations on still being in business after 8 years here in Kelowna...for alot of small businesses this is not a small feat....and 8 years under your belt...you have alot to off the community...keep it up and if you would post where you are I will be first in line at your door if you are still open or when you re-open in the srring.....

[cowgirl]

I have just recently found this forum and I have reviewed the comments regarding the donations to the "victims".
I have, over the past two months been trying desperately to find out where I, as a business owner, can go to get funding. I am not asking purely for money as I live in Kelowna and tourism was down. My business was shut down for 6 weeks as a result of the evacuation. My business relys on the tourist season of July and August to get me through the shoulder seasons of fall and spring. I have been operating my business for 15+ years in the same location. I am not rich, in dollars, by any means. My parents have been living on my business property and working with me for the past 12 years. It has never been a way to get rich. We have always thought of it as a way of life as it is a ranch and when you have mouths to feed (and many of them) it is hard to get rich.
Here is my delema. I am constantly getting the run around by the 'powers that be'. It has taken me submitting an 8 page detailed report and waiting 5 weeks, with numerous phone calls, to get the answer that I don't qualify. Why, you ask? Because I wasn't burnt down. I'm one of the 'lucky ones'. I was 'lucky' to be removed from my home and business, along with a multitude of animals, for over a month. I was 'lucky' that during this time the out of pocket expenses on things such as feed drained my bank account quite quickly. I was one of the 'lucky ones' who has been given the opportunity to come home, have a look around, take inventory of what is here and come to the shocking realization that I'm quite likely going to have to pack it all up and leave. Yep, I'm one of the 'lucky ones'. In all honesty, it would have been easier to have been burnt out. I would have known weeks, no, months ago that I had to start over instead of trying so hard to hang on. I also would have qualified for funding.
As far as the 'Recovery' center goes it is my opinion that they are not the informative center they should be. I guess I was delutioned in thinking that if I went to them, they would have the information I would need to proceed to whoever is able to help me out. I was told, flat out, that there is no chance of funds for me. Why? Because I didn't burn down. "Right now" they are only looking at businesses that were home based and burnt out and because "right now" they are still trying to decide what the criteria is going to be? Actually, they (the commitee) are trying to come up with an application that will be made available, then filled out, then sorted, then assesed, then reviewed....... sounds like at least a 6 month to a year wait. Why? Because there is no prescient and bureaucracy rules and people are too frustrated to know where to go next! When the recovery center told me 'no', I asked what other options I might have. I was told the Red Cross. Not an option as I have a roof, some food and clothing. Next option, a bank is offering interest free loans. Why would I get a loan to cover my lost profit? When I started to get angry and my frustration started to show, the next response was to tell me there is counselling available. Now, let me think......why would I need counsiling? I know that living through 5+ weeks of not knowing if my life of 15+ years is still standing was hell beyond compare to anything I had experienced, but the aftermath of crapola is almost unbearable.
Here is what else I have found out so far.................
-the yellow ribbon fund is being administered by the Red Cross and the Salvation army. I thought it wasn't supposed to be run by anyone but locally? Are portions of this fund going to be sent to the national offices?
-some of the local funds have gone to Barriere. They haven't got them. They also have more funds raised then we do. But they don't have those yet either.
-the yellow ribbon fund is somewhere between 225,000 and 250,000, but not for sure?
-the city fund (get this) is between 600,000 and 800,000, but not for sure?
-the city fund is apparently planning to give out $1000 near Dec. to each home burnt down. That's $250,000. I'm afraid I have a hard time not believing that allot of these people will think of it as 'pocket change'. Sounds to me like a bad way to spend over 1/4 of the fund, and a good way to make themselves feel beter for draging their heels.
-the commitee(s) involved meet once a week
-the committees are working on creating an application to enable people to apply for funding. Should this not have been accomplished within the last 8 weeks?
- the committees are working to create guidelines that will be put in place to establish the criteria that will be the basis of the funding requirements. Again, what's the hold up?
-that the funds are out there to the tune of millions. Not just locally, but provincial and federal.
I'm frustrated beyond compare. I'm tired of being made to feel like I'm the only one with these questions. I'm not am I? I wanted to run an ad in the paper to see about getting people together and maybe forming a single large voice. I'm not able to run the ad at this time as I'm lacking the funds. I'm looking for feed back from others who share my frustration, desperation and anger. I've been told that getting people together would be a great idea. After all, who is keeping track of what's going on? Why does it seem that this whole matter has been put on a back burner?
Thanks for listening.

[Laurel]

Good point Cowgirl... I wondered how much has been raised and where it's going. As for small businesses that are solely dependant on summer tourist and a few locals, Hang in there, and maybe, just maybe local people may start supporting the Mom and Pop operations in town instead of supporting the likes of Jimmy Pattison et al, who won't buy much local produce because the big American companies hold them hostage. the Americans will not supply in the winter if the stores cut orders in the fruit season here. Crazy. Peter's Produce takes great pride in selling ONLY Okanagan fruit and vegetables. Leave the California and Chilian product to the big stores . When tourists come to a fruit stand in the Okanagan they expect Okanagan fruit, not the stuff in the stores that I wouldn't feed to my pigs! They can get the same stuff at home no matter where they live . They come here for the Taste experience; Peach juice running down your arm and dripping off your elbow Come and see what we mean, june to october next year in Westbank. Thanks guys and Keep your chin up.