Mr Rick Pasutto

[a proud SE Kelowna resident]

A local S.E. Kelowna resident is being unfairly attacked and slandered for his constructive yet positive comments he made towards how things were handled during Kelowna fire. His name is Mr. Rick Pasutto. His initial efforts were not without the help and dedication of local residents, forestry crews including Team Vigilantes and Madburn, as well as mother nature. In hindsight we all need to ask ourselves “ Is there anything more I could have done to help prevent the fire from destroying my neighbourhood?“. If your answer is “My neighbourhood was not destroyed” you are part of the fortunate 100% majority of S.E Kelowna residents that were being protected under their watchful eyes.
It is truly a tragedy that many families lost their homes. Could anything have been done to prevent or minimize these families losses? I don’t think there is an immediate answer to this dilemma.
Mr. Pasutto is being discredited for his comments made in regards to his experience on how the various fire agencies responded to our calls for help. These comments, as he clearly stressed, were made in a positive way and not to discredit any one or any fire agency. I also believe they were made in a genuine effort to help prevent this tragedy from ever happening again.

What can you do to help?

1. Write your local newspaper and submit an editorial.
2. Talk to people about your experience
3 Tell Mr.Pasutto, his family, and all the support crews how much you appreciate their efforts.
4. Look-up Castanet (on the web) click on “Okanagan Mountain FIRE WATCH” icon, click on “discussion forum”, click on “fire discussion” and post your comments.

We have a lot to be thankful for. First, no one was seriously injured or killed. Secondly we all still have our homes. Thirdly, without the foresight and initiatives set forth by Mr. Pasutto, our S.E Kelowna landscape may have a different look today.

Sincerely,

from a S.E. Kelowna resident who was there

[Drip torch in the woods]

The Protection Branch is a distinct organization centered around both a culture and a system within the Ministry of Forests. Charged with providing fire suppression to the forests of British Columbia the Protection Branch has incorporated a variety of systems into it’s infrastructure with the designed intention of removing the possibility of human error by automating its response to a set of given circumstances. An example, the fire behaviour prediction system is incorporated as a tool for evaluating risk and reward relationships in the practice of proactive risk management. In an essence the managers attempt to plug an infinite number of variables into a machine (a series of safety critical systems) with a very finite number of possible results.

“Since all organizations are social phenomena designed to produce a good or provide a service, it is not likely that organizations characterized by sophisticated, potentially dangerous technologies, and charged with operating those technologies so as not to hurt themselves or their environments, are very different from other organizations” - Roberts (1993)

In the last twenty years academics (those experts) have studied disaster and crisis management by various organizations with a view to providing a model to organizations requiring high reliability in safety critical systems.

Disaster:

1 [C] an unexpected event such as a very bad accident, a flood or a fire that kills a lot of people or causes a lot of damage

2 [C, U] a very bad situation that causes problems

3 [C, U] (informal) a complete failure

The founder of the organizational school of disaster management is the late Barry Turner. His book, “Man Made Disasters”, and his subsequent work on a “6 stage disaster assessment model”, has been a major influence upon the study of crisis management and it has shaped further research into highly reliable safety critical systems. Turner made the important point that disasters are rarely the result of technical failure alone but incorporate managerial, social and political dimensions into their causal factors. Turner highlights the importance of erroneous assumptions within the decision making process. He argues that it is the tendency of both managers and operators to minimize cognitively the risks that they face. This, combined with their inabilities to pick up on weak signals and their reluctance to heed the views of those outside of the group, results in the creation of incubated failure potential.

Much of Turner’s work centered on the cultural dynamics of an organization as being a significant factor towards the organizations propensity towards failure, specifically, his work researched culture, communications and accountability. While the breakdown of communications is often seen as a significant factor in crisis generation, the process of accountability has not been so obvious. Somehow within the process of accountability, after a near miss or an event, organizations continually miss opportunities to learn by assessing blame and scapegoating. In essence the very search for culpability implies the fallibility of human operators and distances the critical systems from any further analysis.

Conventional managerial wisdom dictates when a system fails, it’s either a technological failure or an identifiable human error in the application of that system. Turner challenged that mindset and observed the managerial, administrative and political dimensions in the incubation process that leads to potential failure. The quality and speed of decision-making; the extent and reliability of information flows; and the extent to which all levels of the organization are involved in the decision-making process are areas of particular concern in Turner’s incubation period for disaster.

Since Turner, a number of other scholars have made significant contributions that I’ll take a moment and run through. Roberts and Gargano, point out that in order to deal with the task requirements of co-ordination, organizations need slack resources to ensure reliability. However, high-risk organizations are invariably resource-lean and working to,
or near, full capacity and in many cases, organizations deal with the requirement to be resource-lean by replacing human operators with greater automation within the system, thereby creating “technological slack” that management can utilize. Perrow, comments that many of the more catastrophic failures “are alarmingly banal examples of organizational elites not trying very hard at all.” And, finally Smith noted, scapegoating, and the tendency to re-write history within the whole process of post-crisis legitimization tends to inhibit the learning process.

The controls within any organization are put in place and monitored by experts, however it can be observed that the culture plays a significant role in the observation of those controls. In defining culture, Schein observes;
“...a pattern of basic assumptions - invented, discovered or developed by a given group as it learns to cope with its problems of external adaptation and internal integration - that has worked well enough to be considered valid and, therefore, to be taught to new members as the correct way to perceive, think and feel in relation to those problems”

... See Post 2/

[Drip torch in the woods]

Turner questioned whether the use of expertise could be responsible for the incubation of disaster and Scarbrough and Corbett observed that, “intra-management politics encouraged competition between different specialisms to secure control of the most important decision-making functions”. They also noted that beyond codifying and transmitting knowledge through the development of procedures, expert groups also seek to secure control over the knowledge domains as a means of promoting the interests of the expert group. This leads to the observation that technical expertise is sometimes used to support pre-determined policy objectives, which facilitate the continuance of the organizations activities. Unfortunately, to an extent, the use of expertise can be an inhibiting factor in the flow of information as the organization shows reluctance to bring non-expert opinion into the decision-making and challenge processes.

So what does all this pseudo academic sociology have to do with the OMP fire? Well I have two points to make here. The first is I became aware of the organizational school of disaster management through, “The Westray Story – A Predictable Path to Disaster”, a report stemming from the public enquire into the Westray Mine accident in Plymouth, Nova Scotia. With 30,000 lives disrupted, over 200 homes destroyed and the very future of Kelowna left dangling in the breeze for a number of days, the OMP fire was not “an unexpected event”, or “a very bad situation that caused problems”… It was a complete failure and it’s only appropriate that the public be involved in the process of legitimizing this failure. Nothing short of a public enquire should be acceptable.

My second point involves Mr. Rick Pasutto and the retort by Denis Gaudry of the Forest Service. Mr. Pasutto has received a fair amount of flack for his comments and I find that alarming. The comments that I read were to the effect of Rick’s crew was battling the fire within 300 meters of his home with pump cans and pulaski’s while millions of dollars worth of fire trucks sat idle on the sidelines. In the article I read on Castanet Rick didn’t use his position as a forestry contractor to make his comments. I was almost surprised to later read that Mr. Pasutto was contracting to the MOF, but at no time did I think that Mr. Pasutto was attempting to speak on behalf of the MOF. What I find really alarming is that Mr. Denis Gaudry was speaking on behalf of the Protection Branch of the Ministry of Forests:

We're Sorry Gerry: Gov't
Kelowna Fire Chief Gerry Zimmerman says recent high profile criticism of how his men fought the Okanagan Mountain Park fire had a big impact on morale. Rick Pasutto get plenty of media coverage when he openly criticized some Kelowna fire fighters for allegedly not showing up to protect his home. He even went as far as questioning their courage. "It knocked the hell out us," says Zimmerman. Pasutto works as a private contractor for the Ministry of Forests. The Ministry has offered the Kelowna fire department a formal apology. "Mr. Pasutto spoke as a private citizen and his words do not reflect the views of the forests service," says spokesman Denis Gaudry who was asked to launch an investigation into Pasutto's comments. "It's unfortunate that Mr. Pasutto used his work connection to express his views." In fact, Gaudry says the city actually helped Pazutto build a fire guard around his home. Gaudry adds that Pazutto will continue to work for the Ministry of Forests but he won't be giving any more media briefings.

Rick offered a challenge to the system that needs to be addressed and yet, the best Denis Gaudry could do was sidestep the issue and convolute the matter so that the media relations team could make the public feel sorry for the wrongfully accused fire department. Mr Pasutto wasn’t speaking on a personal level; he was challenging the system and shame on you Denis Gaudry for not rising to that challenge.

Did Denis Gaudry turn the challenge to the system into a human issue? You bet he did and by making Rick Pasutto culpable, Denis was able to isolate that system from scrutiny.

“What do all shocking events have in common? Shocking breaches of trust. Well before each such disaster a specious web of trust has been contrived. After the breakdowns we learn of the broken promises, lies, and cover-ups… bad luck spins out of morally indefensible short cuts and gambles… any policy is a fiasco if it isn’t backed up by honesty.” Jacobs(1992)

A public enquire is an opportunity to refine the systems in place… it’s about trust and after comments like the “Martin Mars isn’t suited to OMP’s terrain” and “"Mr. Pasutto spoke as a private citizen and his words do not reflect the views of the forests service,"… Trust becomes an issue.

Time to write the MLA…

[horsey]

Thank you,

To S.E. Kelowna resident. Rick is my brother-in-law and I have watched this from the side lines. I am very proud of him and his family and friends for what they worked so hard to save.

Drip,

Thank you for the words of someone that has done their homework. You seem like a very knowledgeable person.

Lclark

[Roofus]

I received in my mail box today a circular from the SEKRC. I have no idea who the SEKRC is but I can tell you they do not speak for me or many others I know. Unfortunately, Canada Post have no choice under the legislation but to distribute this drivel when someone pays for it.

This piece of garbage is designed to further Pasutto's attempts at self aggrandizement and self promotion.

This circular clearly says that his commenst were made in a positive way - what excatly is positive about saying that the Fire Department turned tail and ran away when faced with a fire?

I think Rick PAsutto bears all the hallmarks of a an over-promoted glory hog who is hell-bent on proving his views to be the "right"views.

He has clearly and deliberatley attacked all of the people who fought so hard on this fire and he has specifically attacked the Kelowna Fire Department. No amount of backsliding or squirming can now get him out of the fact that he called the KFD cowards and he deserves the enmity of the people in this and any other community who are questioning him.

He has got the 15 minutes of fame that Andy Warhol said we are all entitled to - it time for him to either fade away.

[horsey]

Roofus,

You make it obvious that you are a firefighter.

You make me sick, come out of the closet and produce your real name. I don't have a problem with it. My name is Laura Clark. You can reach me at [e-mail]

Your remarks are unwarranted. Rick is not putting down all the people that were up on the front lines fighting this fire.

The KFD has reaped all the benefits from this (HERO poo) the only one that is willing to put his reputation of the line is Rick. He is talking from his experience and the knowledge that he has. Did you personally get the call from the begining when Rick was calling for help to the city officals. NO obviously not. I don't hear anyone saying hail to the operaters.

The fire fighters were sitting on the corner of McCulloch and June Springs road when everything was happening. You were not in the thick of it at this moment.

Rick was not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

Was your vest being tugged at when you were fighting this fire?

Rick doesn't need self promotion. He is a man of courage and of knowlegde. And you are?

The FREEDOM OF SPEECH there buddy. I think this is what are country still stands for. Rick was speaking out of this.

I am so sorry this peice of mail has angered you maybe you need to seek couselling for this.

I AM HERE WHAT IS YOUR ANGER ABOUT?
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IN THIS SESSION.

That's what you need.

If you live in South East Kelowna in the area of June Springs Road maybe you should be thankfull. But your not. Boo whoo

Laura Clark
aka Who Knows
aka Horsey

[Roofus]

Well, firstly, I am not a fire-fighter. I am a citizen of SE Kelowna who is capable of seeing and understanding a larger picture of how this and other fires were and are fought.

I am not about to stand up on a soap box and sing the praises of a "hero" who takes the remarkeably un-heroic action of calling professionals who risked their lives cowards on national television. That is unwarranted and cowardly. I think it speaks volumes about the person who would take that step.

Enough said on that.

Why cast your vitriol on anyone who would dare to dis-agree with your obviously well thought and thouroughly reasoned opinion when as you so so clearly pointed out above - there is such a thing as free speech and the right to hold other opinions.

The letter which was put in my mailbox today purports to be from a residents committee I have never of, and who clearly do not represent me or my opinions. The letter was paid for so Canada Post unfortunately have no choice but to deliver it. However, for such a brave group - there is no name on it, nor is there a contact phone number or address of any sort. I am also told by the people at Canada Post that the person who paid for the letter to be delivered would not give his name or address?!

Terribly brave.

I think it is time that a small group of people quit trying to make a hero out of someone undeserving of the label and who is simply not taken seriously by the majority of us. Stunts such as this letter will serve only to further harden peoples attitudes against Mr. PAsutto.

[horsey]

Roofus

You have your opinion as well do I.

Have the bravery of sending me an e-mail. I put that out for you and any one else. But you are obviously not brave enough to do that.

Do you have the knowledge and the skills to go behind what you say?

Maybe if you mail me I will get you into contact with Rick. Don't worry I will inform this to him. All he will do is blow you off. I mean he is a bigger man and will not personally assult someone that is not big enough himself to use his true name. At least he stands up for what he believes in. He does not judge without having the facts, that is the good thing about Rick.

Don't be such a coward yourself.
My name once again is Laura Clark. [e-mail]

Go for it and give me a line.
Your anger and lashing out about Rick seems to have the best of you.

[g]

Obviously the public who trusts in our government & the way the work are the ones who dare to believe that they ( government agencies) can do no wrong.
Firstly Rick did not call anyway a coward, that was Zimmermans owns words for his own men!?
Secondly, Rick is not trying to make himself out to be a "hero" but wants the public to know that this fire was not fought unified.
Unfortunately, as with all facets of government one has to look out for themselves, this is no different. Had people not stood their ground in East Kelowna and fought for their own who knows what would have happend.
I think its time for another media blitz

[Ely]

mail box today a circular from the SEKRC

okay, for those that don't know, what is SEKRC?

[Drip torch in the woods]

Looks to me like Roofus was fed his big picture from the likes of Zimmerman, Matriga and Gaudry through BCTV.

Why can’t you sign up and discuss this without posting self-righteous crap void of any substance or context? Context, as in your Rick Pasutto comments are your own and taken right out of context. I’ve never read that or saw that on TV.

The Kelowna Fire Department, with help from a number of other fire departments, the support of the Fire Commissioners Office and the newly formed Provincial Fire Department did a great job. No one here has ever said otherwise without hearing from me.

Overall they sure weren’t utilized that effectively; didn’t do enough mitigation work and didn’t seem to have a coordinated strategy with the forest service, but this points toward a problem in the system and not with the people. I believe Rick Pasutto had guts to stand up and state outright that there is a problem in the system... something that I've been pointing out since about the 20th of August.

If you want to defend the system and explain that big picture you're looking at... step right up... otherwise, you should sit yourself back down in front of the TV.

And I do stand by those comments so if you’d like a name, address and phone number to attribute them to just drop me a note.

[Roofus]

Lovely, intelligent and deeply moral discourse.

You people, clearly the close friends and family of Mr. PAssutto distribute a flyer inviting people to share their opinions with the community.

You forgot to point out that anyone who does share your opinion will be subject to bullying, threats and intimidation, the last true refuge of scoundrels and the intellectually bankrupt.

South East Kelowna Residents Committee my foot, this "committee" is clearly composed of a small number of people in the June Springs area who are determined to make trouble - viz ' time for another media blitz", you are detrmined to make the world agree with your point of view, hero worship, no matter what.

A mickey mouse little bulletin board with five people talking back and forth and clearly closed toother ideas or opinions does not make any of you arbiters of the truth. It makes you the protectors of the truth you wish to project upon the wider world.

This is a very sad comment and reflection on the state of what is called discussion in this society, yell and scream louder than anyone else, and for goodness sake yell louder than opposing viewpoints.

Very Sad, almost pitiable.

[Ozzy]

Roofus,
As a south east kelowna resident AND who lives in the june springs road area, I find your comments on the borderline of pompus... you seem to think that anyone who finds what Mr. Pasutto did as being in need of fame and in need of a hero.... what gives you any authority to say what Mr. Pasutto said or feels.... personally I don't know the man. BUT I do know that towards the last days of the fire, it was HE who found and contacted us to see if they could protect our home with a fire line,..... it was HE and HIS crew that patrolled the area for hot spots, when us residents weren't allowed back to see if our homes were okay.
Is he a hero - I'm probably pretty sure he doesn't see himself as that, despite what others have said to him.
Did he say some things about the firefighters that were not all lovey dovey, I don't know, cuz neither you or I were there when those words were said... oh I see you read it in the paper - well jeez then IT MUST BE TRUE....
Why don't you go up to Mr. Passutto's place and tell him what you think of him... or ask him what he said... well we know you wouldn't actually do that.... when push comes to shove, your nothing more than the other armchair firefighters whose not quite as brave as their mouths / fingers would let have you pressume.

Unless your willing to go get the information DIRECTLY from the horses mouth then frankly your only continueing gossip and garbage.... the same thing that the media is infamous for...

You've been asked to actually back up your comments by stating your name, and yet you don't... atleast IF Rick said something that wasn't PC he had the gonads to speak his mind and his beliefs and NOT hide behind a sign on name....

[horsey]

Roofus,

It seems to me the assumption factor has gotten the best of you. re. distribute a flyer.

Your assumptions are very untrue to the fact that maybe it is not anyone that is even remotely related or close friends that distributed this literature. Sorry, but wrong.

I am from Langley, and I am close to the person that is being personally assulted.
You are obviously from Kelowna SE. to be correct. Is this not true. I want to stick to the facts not untrue assumptions?

Bring on the threats, bullying and intimidation, I have broad shoulders and can handle it. Bring it on!!!!

You are the coward that is not able to bring it on. I have for the third time know told you my name and e-mail address, but you can not come to the table.
Laura Clark [e-mail]

What is your background and knowledge in the field that we are discussing?

What are your creditails?

Where were you in the middle of this inferno? Did you help out to save the area of June Springs Road? Have you got all the facts, because I have not seen you produce one fact yet, all that you have stated is here say crap?


It is obvious that you are the one that needs the help and support behind you. I see no one else on here. Maybe you and your FRIENDS should put your money where your mouth is.

Read the focus on the castanet page and realize that there are many out there that are sick of the KFD "HERO STATUS" boo whoo to the fact that it wasn't a picture of one of the KFD Firefighters.

It is the realization that you are just in anger with all that encompass a little credit where credit is due.

Rick Pasutto has come forward to point out the facts of his situation. This is his point of view. He has the knowledge and skills to back up what he said.

As for the statment about the KFD fire fighters go back get a copy of the tape and look closely at it. It was not Rick Pasutto that called the KFD cowards it was Zimmerman that did that. Don't puts words into other peoples mouths.

I still hear the anger and frustration in your posts. I think that you need to truely talk with someone. Maybe just being able to have someone actively listen to you will help you.

ROOFUS, start listing facts not your judgemental opinions. They are not credited at all.

These comments were stated so there is not another problem like the one that Kelowna faced this summer. Maybe that is the fact. All the groups involved need to sit at a table and see what can be done to get it together in a time like this.

Oh, that's right everybody is at fault but the KFD. Which is a government agency. OOps sorry I forgot.

As far as I am concerned you may try to bankrupt me all you want, but I am an educated individual with the FREEDOM OF SPEECH. You are the one that keeps voicing names and name calling and you yourself can not be up front.
Therefore, you should bring it to the table and you yourself be the brave one. You are very much calling the kettle black when you call others that are not brave to sign a name to the talk.

Laura Clark

[horsey]

Roofus,

Just checked my personal mail. Nothing there. What's up?

Mr. Brave